Talk:Mistranslations in the .hack series
Shugo=Kite? Okay i think there is a big misunderstanding. I am saying that Shugo has Kite's player "model", not the account or anything just the same model. It's chibi, but that is the art style, since it manga doesnt say its chibi. Also we dont know if kite still has the bracelet because once again, the manga never says. I do believe he said something in .hack//unison about waiting for its next person to have as well as the reason he got it. Plus reality and fiction are different, so it is possible to make another character with the same name, and simply because the .hack franchise is a work of fiction. But without actual japanese text its hard to say. So, Shugo gets "kite's/the twilight bracelet" from aura who may have gotten back from the original kite. Like i said, we dont know. Or does somebody know? Does anyone have anything that states what happened between .hack//quarintine and .hack//legend of the twilight bracelet? Anyway, i lot of the arguments you guys have said sound like you think that im saying its like the same account that Shugo has when that is not what i was saying at all. Does this change anything? I dunno, i thought i should clear this up though. Even though everyone calls him "Shugo" his user name, as in the one the game refers to him as, is "Kite". I can't remember the page but its in first chapter where it shows a picture of Shugo and Rena and says"Player name: Kite" and "Player name: Blackrose" :Those are actual pictures of Kite and Blackrose, that's why. - Kuukai2 18:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC) ::How could you possibly tell? They're suppose to look exactly the same as the original Kite and Blackrose. And dont say cause its in the game, because all the dot hack projects were being produced around the same time. Besides their player names are never directly says anything about their actual "player names". :::You fucking idiots. Kite and Shugo are not the same character. BlackRose is not the same as Rena. If they were, please explain these things to me. :::#Shugo does not have the Bracelet. :::#Shugo's character looks liked a chibified Kite. Rena's character looks like a chibified BlackRose. :::#Shugo and Rena are at level 1. :::Also, please explain how Kite shows up near the end of volume 3 of the manga to tell Balmung that he's too busy with interviews if you're saying Shugo took his character? This is what I hate about the stupid new fans saying Kite is Shugo. If they actually think instead of going "ZOMG! Shugo adn Kite almost look teh same!", then we wouldn't have to deal with this. Kulaguy 04:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC) ::::Before you go around calling people an idiot, consider this. This is a for accurate information and not a place for assumptions. Now i did not say that Kite and Shugo are the same person, but because the character models that Rena won are "special edition" there is a chance that they are "player name: Kite" and "player name: Rena". Also because the use of their actual player names are NEVER mentioned throught the series, you are assuming that Shugo's player name is Shugo and could not be Kite. Also Rena apparently doesnt role-play as "Rena" as we see in .hack//rumor that she used to be Bridget. Why would someone who played The World with a made up name suddenly deside to use her real name when she is a new character, hmmm? Also in the third volume Rena refers to herself in the third person supporting the fact that she is "Blackrose" not Akira Hayami but Rena Kunisaki being the new "Blackrose". Also, dont counter with "they cant have the same player name" because the whole special event that got them the character models was orchestrated by most likely "Aura" since the CC Corp said they never held the event and Aura knew Shugo from the past when he played on Kaz's computer. Also, a mistranslation is not likly in the case of names. Don't assume they have monkeys translating these things. Orca and Ouka are similar and could easily be mistranslated (although I think common sense should dictate a female werewolf is not Orca of Azure Sea but whatever) But Kite (or Kaito in Japanese) is considerably different than Shugo. Esp since Kaito in Japanese would most likely be spelled in Katakana while Shugo (being an actual Japanese name) would be in Hiragana. ::::Oh and to counter some of your other arguments. No Shugo does not have the "Bracelet" but that is still an assumption. It could have been modified by Aura so that it fit into The World without Morganna and the data bugs. But that is still an assumption that the actual source does not specify on. Second, everyone in that awesome manga looks chibified. That's just the artist style. The "Kite" that you assume to a picture of the original and Shugo look exactly the same. Same with the Rena and "Blackrose" picture. And once again, I never said Kite and Shugo were the same person. A lot of things I've said are assumptions but they have something to back it up with. You saying that Shugo's player name is not kite is also an assumption since it is never directly said in the manga what his user and player name are. It never says User Name: Shugo Player Name: Shugo or Kite. ::::This is what i hate about you stupid people, you think you know something andclaim it as real without providing any kind of evidence other that "you're an idiot. I'm right, you're wrong." Also Kite doesnt show up in Volume 3. He sent an e-mail and his profiled showed so that it would be a more artisic way of showing who sent it instead of Balmung just saying "Kite said:" ::::So there's my argument. What do you have to show to prove that you're right? And remeber back it up with facts, not assumptions. Okay, once again. I agree Shugo Kunisaki is not the original Kite. But he has the same character model. Also, the reason Shugo is at level one is because it is a new character logging into the game but its the same character model with possibly the player name "Kite". Not the very same one that the original used but remember its data and you can make a copy of it. Second, Aura is the ultimate AI remeber, she can do pretty much anything. So instead of arguing about this, ('cause its not really important it doesnt change the story one bit) show me the original panel. Give me a picture, a link, anything. And the reason I made assumptions is because an assumption can counter another assumption. What was originally said was an assumption that could be countered by of course more assumption and those assumptions can be countered by more assumptions. The only way to break the chain is with fact. Also, no one said that Shugo had the bracelet when he started. And you know what, neither did Kite. (By the way, I can't see the Japanese text sorry...) So show me that, I dont have the original text. But please show me facts, not assumptions. I'm going to leave the article how it is now because im really tired of all this. :Umm, I gave you facts, and if you can't read then you should get your computer to suport Japanese (it's pretty easy). PKK no Haseo-san also gave proof and page numbers from the English version... I'm pretty sure that ends it... - Kuukai2 19:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC) Formatting hell. Read at own risk. :::::LOL Back it up with facts, not assumptions? Let me see what you just said. ::::::"A lot of things I've said are assumptions but they have something to back it up with." :::::Your long winded arguement has been in vain. Oh, wait, you want me to specify on all of your arguement? All right. Prepare for formatting hell. ::::::"Before you go around calling people an idiot, consider this. This is a for accurate information and not a place for assumptions." :::::So why are you making assumptions? ::::::"Now i did not say that Kite and Shugo are the same person, but because the character models that Rena won are "special edition" there is a chance that they are "player name: Kite" and "player name: Rena"." :::::So you agree Rena is not BlackRose? My God. Stop contradicting yourself. ::::::"Also because the use of their actual player names are NEVER mentioned throught the series, you are assuming that Shugo's player name is Shugo and could not be Kite." :::::Oh please. Don't give me this crap. The ONLY mention of Shugo being Kite and Rena being BlackRose is in page 30 of volume 1. Everywhere else, they are referred to as Shugo and Rena. Now I know you're gonna whine and say "That's just their nicknames!" You believe that one mention of Shugo being Kite and Rena being BlackRose will actually make them that? ::::::"Also Rena apparently doesnt role-play as "Rena" as we see in .hack//rumor that she used to be Bridget. Why would someone who played The World with a made up name suddenly deside to use her real name when she is a new character, hmmm?" :::::This is a place for facts, right? Then her name is Brigit, not Bridget. Get the damn name right if you're gonna make an arguement. Now then, why would Rena wanna use her real name? So as to differentiate from BlackRose. Now obviously that is just an assumption but it DOESN'T matter why she uses her real name. It could be so Shugo knows it's her when they first meet. It could be so she doesn't have to deal with multiple names. The point is she used her real name. ::::::"Also in the third volume Rena refers to herself in the third person supporting the fact that she is "Blackrose" not Akira Hayami but Rena Kunisaki being the new "Blackrose"." :::::How the hell does Rena referring to herself in third person prove anything? Rumor speaks in third person. What's your point? Please point out what page it's on. I'd rather not waste time looking over a 200+ manga just to prove a point. ::::::"Also, dont counter with "they cant have the same player name" because the whole special event that got them the character models was orchestrated by most likely "Aura" since the CC Corp said they never held the event and Aura knew Shugo from the past when he played on Kaz's computer." :::::They can't have the same player name. It DOES NOT matter if Aura held the event. You are speaking of a technical aspect. Try this out on your computer. Get a picture of Kite and save it as "Kite". Now get a picture of Shugo and save it as "Kite" in the same folder and format as the former picture. If you did it right, it will ask to overwrite the earlier picture. See my point? If Aura named Shugo "Kite" that would effectively rewrite Kite's character. Why would she do that to somone who saved her? Hell, why would she give away the character of someone who saved her? You may argue that there are many ways to write "Kite" in Japanese. I'm by no means an expert in Japanese, so we shall wait for Kuukai, if he sees this, to tell us how Kite is written in the Games and how Kite was written, if it ever was, in Legend of the Twilight. ::::::"Also, a mistranslation is not likly in the case of names. Don't assume they have monkeys translating these things. ''" :::::It's TokyoPop. They called Alf a boy, Ouka as "Orca" and switched the dialogues of Kite and BlackRose in Another Birth: Infection. ::::::"''Orca and Ouka are similar and could easily be mistranslated (although I think common sense should dictate a female werewolf is not Orca of Azure Sea but whatever)" :::::I doubt so. Again, I must wait for Kuukai to arrive and tell us how Orca and Ouka is written. Wait, lemme check their pages. Yeah, Kuukai filled them out so lets see. Orca in Japanese is オルカ and Ouka in Japanese is 凰花. As I said, I'm not an expert but I doubt they could confuse those. ::::::"But Kite (or Kaito in Japanese) is considerably different than Shugo. Esp since Kaito in Japanese would most likely be spelled in Katakana while Shugo (being an actual Japanese name) would be in Hiragana." :::::So you're saying you know Japanese? Checking the pages, this is Kite カイト and this is Shugo シューゴ. So, what was the point of this? ::::::"Oh and to counter some of your other arguments. No Shugo does not have the "Bracelet" but that is still an assumption. It could have been modified by Aura so that it fit into The World without Morganna and the data bugs. But that is still an assumption that the actual source does not specify on. ''" :::::What the hell? Shugo DOES NOT have the Bracelet in the beginning. Even the books says so. In volume 2, the page where it lists all the characters and gives a brief description says: "Shugo: The hero of the story. 14 years old and Rena's twin brother. After a mysterious accident, Aura gave him the Twilight Bracelet." So how the hell does modifying it into The World without Morganna and the Data Bugs work? You tell me not to make assumption but YOU are the one making assumptions. Hell, it even says that Shugo was given the Bracelet by Aura. I distinctly remember Shugo asking why Aura gave him the Bracelet. This point that Shugo did not have the Bracelet when he first started playing proves that Shugo's character =/= Kite's character. ::::::"''Second, everyone in that awesome manga looks chibified. That's just the artist style. The "Kite" that you assume to a picture of the original and Shugo look exactly the same. Same with the Rena and "Blackrose" picture. And once again, I never said Kite and Shugo were the same person. A lot of things I've said are assumptions but they have something to back it up with." :::::Explain why Balmung is not chibified, and Sanjuro, and Wiseman, etc. I never assumed anything about Kite being Shugo or vice verse. Please point out where you claim this. You could just be taking the picture out of context. ::::::"You saying that Shugo's player name is not kite is also an assumption since it is never directly said in the manga what his user and player name are. It never says User Name: Shugo Player Name: Shugo or Kite." :::::Yeah... I already told you why Shugo is not Kite. Oh, and you haven't explained why Shugo is at level 1. ::::::"This is what i hate about you stupid people, you think you know something andclaim it as real without providing any kind of evidence other that "you're an idiot. I'm right, you're wrong."" :::::This is coming from the guy who thinks Shugo's character is the same as Kite's. ::::::"'' Also Kite doesnt show up in Volume 3. He sent an e-mail and his profiled showed so that it would be a more artisic way of showing who sent it instead of Balmung just saying "Kite said:"" :::::O RLY? Let me provide evidence. In volume 3, before one of the chapters. You know, the emails part? There's one from Balmung. It says: "By the time the cherry blossoms bloom again, when you Orca and Kite return, this world will become a better place." Now please explain how Kite will return as "Kite" if Shugo is using his chracter. Now, in chapter 14, when Kite and Orca flashmails Balmung, Orca says, "Sounds like something big is about to go down. Sure you aren't taking too much?" and Kite says "If there's anything we can do, just let us know. We're happy to help you out anyime. We'll always be your friend." So then, first off, this is Flash Mail. How do I know? You have to log out to check your email. That means Kite had to log in to tell Balmung. Thereby, beating your freaking arguement even more. ::::::"''So there's my argument. What do you have to show to prove that you're right? And remeber back it up with facts, not assumptions." :::::Remember, you're a hypocrite. You're the one making assumption, not me. Kulaguy 06:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC) ::::: Also, there's proof in Volume 3, so Analysis doesn't have to be dragged into this. Page 15 of UdeDen 3. "I quit being 'Rena.' I'm logging out." It was in quotes, so it's obvious she's talking about her character. And on 21, "I don't want to see Rena die." Why would she say that if she was talking about herself IRL? Because all that would get hurt is her PC. Rena is the name of her character. And again, on 27. "It doesn't feel right to just end things for no reason. I'm sure 'Rena' feels the same way." There is no reason for her to refer to herself twice, if she isn't talking about her PC. Rena Kunisaki's character name is Rena. Just because her old character's name was a made-up name doesn't mean her new one is. PKKnoHaseo-san 08:45 27 July 2006 ---- シューゴ=カイト Well, first, I think everyone should calm down a little. OK then, シューゴ ("Shuugo" in katakana) is written differently from 秀悟 ("Shuugo" in kanji). The assumption is that シューゴ is his character name, and 秀悟 is his real name (in fact when they talk irl they use the latter). Same with Rena, it's レナ vs. れな. And if that doesn't convince you, Analysis explicitly says that their PC names are シューゴ and レナ, and that their IRL names are 国崎秀悟 and 国崎れな. Ok? Case closed, I think. Also, yeah, the Ouka=Orca thing is retarded, we're talking about オルカ vs. 凰花. The former is a type of whale, and the latter means like "Phoenix Flower", no Japanese person would confuse them. Even if you romanize them they're "Oruka" and "Ouka", there's this R''' that they somehow picked up... So yeah, they have definite kinks in their translation setup... - Kuukai2 07:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC) :you say "explicitly says". Um...where does it say that its their player names? Also, judging from the fact that shugo is spelled the way it is and that kite is spelled completely different, i dont think they would mistranslate. I think that's either a mistake in the writting of the original or "kite" is supposed to be his name. There are numerous rooms for errors, but if the actual text said (sorry i dont have the japanese character) "Shuugo wa shiite imasu" would be different as "kaito wa shiite imasu" and thus it still may not be a mistranslation, just faulty writting. ::... He just said where it says it. My God. Read his comment. :::"Analysis explicitly says that their PC names are シューゴ and レナ, and that their IRL names are 国崎秀悟 and 国崎れな." ::Also, names can be written multiple ways in Japanese. This issue is shown in .hack//Firefly. Kulaguy 04:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC) Shugo=Kite 2 I don't see this one. I checked my copy, and I don't see any mention of Shugo as Kite on page 42... :Actually read the page. It specifically says "Player Kite is dead." It's the part where Shugo dies. Kulaguy 05:22, 17 June 2006 (UTC) ::Yeah, if we're talking about what I think we are, it says: :::...You Lose...' ::::'DEAD''' ::...in the Japanese version. - Kuukai 06:36, 17 June 2006 (UTC) :::Damn Tokyopop and their crappy editting. Kulaguy 06:38, 17 June 2006 (UTC) Ah. I see. I didn't count the first few pages. Force of habit...